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	<title>Comments on: The Immorality of Deficit Spending</title>
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	<link>http://atlanticsentinel.com/2010/02/the-immorality-of-deficit-spending/</link>
	<description>Transatlantic Perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Symmetry Capital Management, LLC &#187; The Rising Ratio of Continuing to Initial Claims: How Sustainable?</title>
		<link>http://atlanticsentinel.com/2010/02/the-immorality-of-deficit-spending/comment-page-2/#comment-5398</link>
		<dc:creator>Symmetry Capital Management, LLC &#187; The Rising Ratio of Continuing to Initial Claims: How Sustainable?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atlanticsentinel.com/?p=909#comment-5398</guid>
		<description>[...] who ignore this fact but still harp on the alleged immorality of &#8217;saddling future generations with debt&#8217; are turning substantive economic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] who ignore this fact but still harp on the alleged immorality of &#8217;saddling future generations with debt&#8217; are turning substantive economic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shane McParland</title>
		<link>http://atlanticsentinel.com/2010/02/the-immorality-of-deficit-spending/comment-page-2/#comment-1843</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane McParland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 21:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Correlation does not imply causation!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correlation does not imply causation!</p>
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		<title>By: A Patriot&#8217;s Warning: The Words of Thomas Jefferson &#171; YesterYear Once More</title>
		<link>http://atlanticsentinel.com/2010/02/the-immorality-of-deficit-spending/comment-page-2/#comment-1600</link>
		<dc:creator>A Patriot&#8217;s Warning: The Words of Thomas Jefferson &#171; YesterYear Once More</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atlanticsentinel.com/?p=909#comment-1600</guid>
		<description>[...] of all against all (Definition from the Atlantic Sentinel, which published these same words from Jefferson in a recent [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of all against all (Definition from the Atlantic Sentinel, which published these same words from Jefferson in a recent [...]</p>
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		<title>By: vimothy</title>
		<link>http://atlanticsentinel.com/2010/02/the-immorality-of-deficit-spending/comment-page-2/#comment-1585</link>
		<dc:creator>vimothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atlanticsentinel.com/?p=909#comment-1585</guid>
		<description>Maybe just a couple more things:

So a govt surplus (T &gt; G) implise a leakage such that total expenditure is greater than total income.  Alternatively, a deficit (G &gt; T) implies that total income is greater than total expenditure--because the government is a net addition to the economy as a whole, raising total income without raising total expenditure.

The further impliactions are obvious.  And are the borne out by the empirical record?  Why, yes:

1. 1817-21: In five years, the national debt was reduced by 29 percent, to $90 million. A depression began in 1819.

2. 1823-36: In 14 years, the debt was reduced by 99.7 percent, to $38,000. A depression began in 1837.

3. 1852-57: In six years, the debt was reduced by 59 percent, to $28.7 million. A depression began in 1857..

4. 1867-73: In seven years, the debt was reduced by 27 percent, to $2.2 billion. A depression began in 1873.

5. 1880-93: In 14 years, the debt was reduced by 57 percent, to $1 billion. A depression began in 1893.

6. 1920-30: In 11 years, the debt was reduced by 36 percent, to $16.2 billion. A depression began in 1929.

Oh, and add the Clinton surpluses--but it wasn&#039;t like these were followed by any kind of crash, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe just a couple more things:</p>
<p>So a govt surplus (T &gt; G) implise a leakage such that total expenditure is greater than total income.  Alternatively, a deficit (G &gt; T) implies that total income is greater than total expenditure&#8211;because the government is a net addition to the economy as a whole, raising total income without raising total expenditure.</p>
<p>The further impliactions are obvious.  And are the borne out by the empirical record?  Why, yes:</p>
<p>1. 1817-21: In five years, the national debt was reduced by 29 percent, to $90 million. A depression began in 1819.</p>
<p>2. 1823-36: In 14 years, the debt was reduced by 99.7 percent, to $38,000. A depression began in 1837.</p>
<p>3. 1852-57: In six years, the debt was reduced by 59 percent, to $28.7 million. A depression began in 1857..</p>
<p>4. 1867-73: In seven years, the debt was reduced by 27 percent, to $2.2 billion. A depression began in 1873.</p>
<p>5. 1880-93: In 14 years, the debt was reduced by 57 percent, to $1 billion. A depression began in 1893.</p>
<p>6. 1920-30: In 11 years, the debt was reduced by 36 percent, to $16.2 billion. A depression began in 1929.</p>
<p>Oh, and add the Clinton surpluses&#8211;but it wasn&#8217;t like these were followed by any kind of crash, right?</p>
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		<title>By: vimothy</title>
		<link>http://atlanticsentinel.com/2010/02/the-immorality-of-deficit-spending/comment-page-2/#comment-1584</link>
		<dc:creator>vimothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atlanticsentinel.com/?p=909#comment-1584</guid>
		<description>Nick,

Obviously, there are leakages.  That&#039;s what we&#039;re discussing!  So the question is, how can total income exceed total expenditure?  Alternatively, how can total expenditure exceed total income?  

Probably out of time on this for now...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick,</p>
<p>Obviously, there are leakages.  That&#8217;s what we&#8217;re discussing!  So the question is, how can total income exceed total expenditure?  Alternatively, how can total expenditure exceed total income?  </p>
<p>Probably out of time on this for now&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Ottens</title>
		<link>http://atlanticsentinel.com/2010/02/the-immorality-of-deficit-spending/comment-page-2/#comment-1464</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Ottens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atlanticsentinel.com/?p=909#comment-1464</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It still works if you include taxes, investment and savings.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
If people are saving, money is draining out of the economy, whereas investments/credit injects &quot;extra&quot; money into the economy. The equation only holds if savings are exactly the same as investments.

&lt;blockquote&gt;If we divide our closed economy into two identical private sectors (no government just yet), when one is in deficit, the other is in surplus [...]&lt;/blockquote&gt;
What happens if one sector is doing its business poorly and losing money---but not borrowing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It still works if you include taxes, investment and savings.</p></blockquote>
<p>If people are saving, money is draining out of the economy, whereas investments/credit injects &#8220;extra&#8221; money into the economy. The equation only holds if savings are exactly the same as investments.</p>
<blockquote><p>If we divide our closed economy into two identical private sectors (no government just yet), when one is in deficit, the other is in surplus [...]</p></blockquote>
<p>What happens if one sector is doing its business poorly and losing money&#8212;but not borrowing?</p>
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		<title>By: vimothy</title>
		<link>http://atlanticsentinel.com/2010/02/the-immorality-of-deficit-spending/comment-page-2/#comment-1463</link>
		<dc:creator>vimothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atlanticsentinel.com/?p=909#comment-1463</guid>
		<description>It still works if you include taxes, investment and savings.  Adding a foreign sector is when it gets exciting.

If we divide our closed economy into two identical private sectors (no government just yet), when one is in deficit, the other is in surplus; that is, total spending in one exceeds total income, and total income in the other exceeds total spending by the same amount.  That&#039;s just rearranging what we&#039;ve already said.  Agreed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It still works if you include taxes, investment and savings.  Adding a foreign sector is when it gets exciting.</p>
<p>If we divide our closed economy into two identical private sectors (no government just yet), when one is in deficit, the other is in surplus; that is, total spending in one exceeds total income, and total income in the other exceeds total spending by the same amount.  That&#8217;s just rearranging what we&#8217;ve already said.  Agreed?</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Ottens</title>
		<link>http://atlanticsentinel.com/2010/02/the-immorality-of-deficit-spending/comment-page-2/#comment-1456</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Ottens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atlanticsentinel.com/?p=909#comment-1456</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Total income = total expenditure&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Of course, in our theoretical closed economy. As you mentioned, this is the way to look at a country&#039;s GDP. It doesn&#039;t add up if you throw in investments, savings and taxes, though, but I suppose you&#039;re getting to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Total income = total expenditure</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course, in our theoretical closed economy. As you mentioned, this is the way to look at a country&#8217;s GDP. It doesn&#8217;t add up if you throw in investments, savings and taxes, though, but I suppose you&#8217;re getting to that.</p>
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		<title>By: vimothy</title>
		<link>http://atlanticsentinel.com/2010/02/the-immorality-of-deficit-spending/comment-page-2/#comment-1454</link>
		<dc:creator>vimothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atlanticsentinel.com/?p=909#comment-1454</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re misunderstanding.  I haven&#039;t said anything theoretical yet--I&#039;m just giving you the national accounting identities that will set this exploration up.  Nothing in our definition of a flow has anything to say about economic growth.  And the numbers have to add up.  By definition.  I&#039;m not sure if that was a colloquialism, but...

Start with this:

Total income = total expenditure

Are you familiar with it?  It&#039;s just an identity.  It&#039;s true by definition.  If we&#039;re on the same page with this we should go and look at what a deficit is again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re misunderstanding.  I haven&#8217;t said anything theoretical yet&#8211;I&#8217;m just giving you the national accounting identities that will set this exploration up.  Nothing in our definition of a flow has anything to say about economic growth.  And the numbers have to add up.  By definition.  I&#8217;m not sure if that was a colloquialism, but&#8230;</p>
<p>Start with this:</p>
<p>Total income = total expenditure</p>
<p>Are you familiar with it?  It&#8217;s just an identity.  It&#8217;s true by definition.  If we&#8217;re on the same page with this we should go and look at what a deficit is again.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Ottens</title>
		<link>http://atlanticsentinel.com/2010/02/the-immorality-of-deficit-spending/comment-page-2/#comment-1453</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Ottens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atlanticsentinel.com/?p=909#comment-1453</guid>
		<description>I did take a few economics classes ;)

&lt;blockquote&gt;A government deficit means that its expenditure exceeds its income. A private sector deficit means that income exceeds expenditure for this period. In a closed economy, these two balances are equivalent and net to zero [...]&lt;/blockquote&gt;
As I pointed out earlier, you&#039;re ignoring growth. The numbers don&#039;t add up if the private sector is making profits on its own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did take a few economics classes ;)</p>
<blockquote><p>A government deficit means that its expenditure exceeds its income. A private sector deficit means that income exceeds expenditure for this period. In a closed economy, these two balances are equivalent and net to zero [...]</p></blockquote>
<p>As I pointed out earlier, you&#8217;re ignoring growth. The numbers don&#8217;t add up if the private sector is making profits on its own.</p>
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